“Have no fear of perfection, you'll never achieve it.”

Steve Fouts: 0:00 – Claim

Hey, everybody, Steve and Dan Fouts here. We’re teaching different with Marie Curie, who is a winner of two Nobel Peace prizes in science with a quote about achievement. “Have no fear of perfection, you’ll never achieve it.” A really interesting perspective on achievement, right. This is one of these quotes that you have to read over a couple times before you know what’s going on with it. It’s dealing with perfection, fear, and achievement; pressures a lot of young people feel as they grow up in school. We’ve always talked about being a perfectionist, how that is a burden for some students. They struggle with it because they fear failure so much that they don’t want to put themselves out there to take risks and do creative things. They’re afraid that whatever they create isn’t going to be perfect. But, it’s a balance, right? A really healthy balance is what’s needed. Where is she (Marie Curie) coming down on this idea of perfection? What would you say she’s trying to tell us here, her claim?

Dan Fouts 1:34
Yeah, it’s really interesting, the more you read this one, the more complex it gets, in a good way. There’s a lot of different ways you can go with it. I think she’s suggesting with “Have no fear of perfection”, that people hold perfection up on this pedestal, and that you almost become afraid of it, because it’s so daunting, right? You can never be the perfect person you’ve always wanted to be. You can never be the perfect skater. You can never be the perfect student. Then, she’s saying you’ll never achieve it, so relax. It’s almost like she’s saying, relax, have no fear of perfection.

Steve Fouts 2:24
And again, the fact that she won two Nobel Peace prizes gives her all the credibility to say this, because I would never look at her and say, oh, here’s someone who just doesn’t want to achieve anything. She’s just trying to make an excuse.

Dan Fouts:

It would  be great to have her in this conversation to ask her, how do you deal with achievement, if it’s not perfection? You know, that would be interesting to ask her.

Steve Fouts:

Yeah, ask her what her definition of achievement is. You’d want to hear more from her. So, how do you bring the students in on something like this?

Dan Fouts 3:05
What are some things that you strive to be perfect in? Just let it go. There are going to be so many students, no matter what the age, talking about the demands that they place on themselves for perfection, to be really good at something. Then, politely ask, why do you want to be perfect at your subject or your sport? Or, have them become more self-aware of what it is that’s driving them towards perfection. I think that would yield a very interesting discussion.

Steve Fouts 3:51
Then, something leading into that, before you bring in perfection, ask them what they want to be good at. Get them to get a sense of what they’re striving for, and then you can add on that perfection question later. Are you trying to be perfect at basketball? You might get someone who loves basketball that wants to get better at it. That might not be a perfectionist. They would just say, no, I know I’m not going to make it to the NBA, but I do it to have fun. I think just bringing out what they strive to be good at is another way to get the conversation going.

Dan Fouts 4:40
For the things that they want to be perfect at, you could ask them, does it put too heavy of a burden on you? How and why? What does it feel like when you fall short? They can express a lot of their emotions in this conversation about failure and not reaching their potential.

Steve Fouts 5:05
Yep, and some are going to have pressure from their family and friends. You might be bringing some of that out, so that this could get a little emotional. I would say this could potentially get very deep.

Dan Fouts 5:22
Yeah, depending on what examples they bring up. This could get interesting in that way.

Steve Fouts: 5:29 – Counterclaim

Definitely, well now this is going to be fun. A counterclaim to this quote, “have no fear of perfection, you’ll never achieve it.” What’s the simplest way to talk about another way to look at this that might call this quote into question?

Dan Fouts 5:54
Well, you could just say to heck with her. Her advice here strives for perfection. If you want to become great at something, you have to strive for perfection, you have to set that standard.  You might not need it, but you’ve got to set it up so that you can be motivated and inspired to try to reach it. Perfection is a good thing. It leads to amazing accomplishments.

Steve Fouts 6:25
Not everyone who strives for perfection believes that’s important. Not everyone goes into depression when they fail. They use it as a motivating factor to go find the best. I’m using basketball again. I want to learn from the best basketball players. I may never become Michael Jordan, but if I try to become him, and I fall short, that’s okay, because I’ll push myself, right? There’s that phrase, if you want to shoot for the stars, you may just get to the moon. That’s okay. You’d never get to the moon if you weren’t going for the stars.

Dan Fouts 7:16
So, you don’t fear it, you conquer your failures and overcome them. You’re not afraid of perfection, you’re using the idea of perfection as a catalyst for your own life. There are going to be kids who are on that spectrum of thinking.

Steve Fouts 7:47
You’re right. I thought of another way to almost rewrite her quote. You could use her quote and say, “Have no fear of perfection, but always try for it.” You can almost give that advice as well. Like there’s nothing to fear, but you can still try for it. You don’t have to fear it.  I think this will get the students thinking about achievement and how they deal with things like failure, what motivates them, and what keeps them going.

Dan Fouts 8:29
And the personal costs of going after perfection, or not going after perfection.  There’s a cost and a benefit to each.

Steve Fouts: 8:43 – Essential Question

Right, and adults could use this conversation as well. This kind of stuff never goes away. Essential question, let’s look at this one to wrap up the conversation, keep it simple. “Should we strive for perfection?”  This will give all students a chance to define what perfection is, to talk about how they should orient their life toward it, what they want to give to it? What’s going to happen if they don’t reach it and how all of that figures into their motivation?

Dan Fouts 9:25
What’s their criteria? This is an ethical question of right and wrong. So many kids would say, I think it’s right to strive for perfection in these areas. In these areas I think it’s wrong and detrimental and unhealthy. You can even develop it further and say, well, what’s the difference between those two situations? Why is one right and the other wrong? There are a lot of spin off questions that could come up from how they answered this one.

Steve Fouts 9:57
Yeah, that’s good; the different context where it may or may not be more appropriate.

Well, we hope you enjoyed Marie Curie this week. Make sure to check out our Conversation Library to get some really good discussions going in your classes and check out the Teach Different society. We’re getting more and more conversations in there, and all kinds of lessons and other multimedia to help you with your discussions. Also, you can become the teacher your students remember because you taught differently with conversations. Take care  everybody, we will see you soon. Good luck with your conversations.